Shing02/DJ Icewater Interview — Part 2: Melody of a Martial Artist
Enter Part Two!
I met up with the phenomenal duo of DJ Icewater (a DJ from Los Angeles) and Shing02 (A Japanese born multilingual rapper) and discussed the ways that music and martial arts are similar.
To truly level up your skills in any craft, an open mind helps! Beyond that, if you ever feel like you are plateauing, talking to somebody with a different skillset can be the most beneficial thing for you to do.
No matter where you are in your training, you’ll want to read on to delve into a unique and educational conversation between three artists of different disciplines!
(Don’t forget to check out the first part of our conversation)
ME: DJ Icewater, you mentioned that Shingo brought you to Japan for your first time, correct?
DJ ICEWATER: Yeah.
ME: Any tips for going to Japan for the first time from either of you guys?
DJ ICEWATER: Well…What’s the biggest city you’ve been to? You’ve been to China so I’m sure you’ve seen crowds. *laughs*
ME: Oh, gosh. Yes.
DJ ICEWATER: I haven’t been to China but I would say it is similar but Japan is really kind of…clean and orderly. It’s just…I don’t know. It’s one of my favorite places. I haven’t been everywhere but I’ve been to a lot of different places: Europe, Australia, I’ve been all over the United States a couple of times [as well], and I always want to go back to Japan.
ME: It’s on my bucket list. I’ve gotta go there.
DJ ICEWATER: Oh man, yeah. You’re not gonna want to come back. And if you like, the food is amazing! It’s unlike–whatever you think Japanese food is, that’s not what we eat here [in America]. We eat Japanese-American food and it’s a lot different. You can find similar here but it’s not what dominates here.
SHING02: It’s gotten a lot better.
DJ ICEWATER: It’s gotten a lot better here, yeah. In the last fifteen years, it’s gotten a lot closer [to being authentic]. Over here, sushi is the dominant thing whereas every time I’ve been to Japan–I’ve been maybe five or six times–I’ve probably had sushi only twice!
SHING02: Well, the street food is more accessible and cheaper and arguably better.
DJ ICEWATER: The curries and the ramen are the common food. That’s what normal people eat. It’s like if they were to assume that all Americans pig out and eat steak. *laughs* It’s like, “No, we don’t!” Every now and then but that’s it. But yeah, you’ll enjoy [Japan].
SHING02: The thing is, Japan has forty-seven prefectures and every prefecture is different.
DJ ICEWATER: Yes. That’s what I learned too. It’s super diverse.
SHING02: Different dialects and different foods as well.
DJ ICEWATER: Different climates too! I went all the way to the north, where it gets cold and snows, and then all the way down to the south which is like Hawaii. Very tropical.
SHING02: Yeah, you have islands that are very close to Taiwan, which is pretty much tropical.
ME: Sooo…Swim trunks and a winter coat, I’ll bring them both!
I’m trying to think of how to phrase this…The idea of “mastery” is something that is almost cliche in the martial arts realm. It’s this idea of “Oh! He’s a karate master! He’s learned all that there is to learn, he’s done everything, learned everything, he’s got nothing else to improve”. I don’t think that’s exactly true. There’s always that next level.
SHING02: Oh, always! Even in martial arts, you have degrees in black belt, right? It starts at one and goes to seven, eight, or nine.
ME: I feel like the thing that really helps you progress is creativity. That’s where I feel that there is especially a crossover with music, right? What’s your perspective on music? What’s it mean to you? It’s a really open, broad question ’cause I’m curious as to how you take it.
SHING02: Well, music is definitely a language. It’s a set of knowledge. If you handle an instrument, or even if you are a DJ or handle equipment, it’s all about experience and knowledge and discipline, sometimes mixed with experimentation.
The more you put into a discipline, obviously the better you will get. Even if it’s doing the same thing over and over and over again. It is a language, it is a form of expression, but, it is also a reflection of what you put into it. That will come through you.
I’m not going to say I’m the most disciplined person, I have other interests. Rapping is not the only way I express myself, y’know what I mean?
For me, it’s almost like some songs, such as “Luv (sic)” or “Battlecry”, I’d do it over and over and over again. But my whole motivation of keeping it going is that there is always going to be someone who is seeing me for the first time. I have to come at it as if I am rapping it for the first time.
And not only for the performance aspect but I [also] always try to link back to the time when I wrote the song because that’s when it was the rawest. Hip hop is so…not disciplined in a way. There are no rules. It’s freestyle but you have to create your own discipline.
ME: For sure. *looks to DJ ICEWATER* Anything to add on to that?
DJ ICEWATER: I agree that music is a language but also what I love about music is that–whether it’s music you create or it’s music that you buy and listen to, it serves as almost like a tangible marker in your life history. If I listened to a song in high school and I hear it today, it’s basically time travel. You’re back to where you were at that point.
Lately I’ve been studying a lot of speed reading and memory training stuff and they always talk about the idea of “memory palaces”. That’s how these guys remember stuff. They create these memory palaces of the home they grew up in and they attach–like if they need to remember this number or this fact, they “attach” it to the bathroom of their childhood home.
To me, I was applying that concept, not to my childhood home but to my record collection. I’d build memory palaces and think about the first ten records I ever bought. I know them all because I’ve been selling my records online lately and every once in a while I’ll come across the original crate that I built.
Those records I don’t sell–mainly because they are really torn up and not worth anything, but also for sentimental reason. But also, they’re a part of my memory palace. I think everybody subconsciously has that connection to music.
I know a lot of people with the song Luv (sic) will probably remember the first time they heard it. You can always use that to attach to the memories of that time but also new memories you make. You can associate. That’s something music gives you that…I don’t know if other things can give you. If you’re trying to remember stuff or attach deeper meaning to something, you can always associate a song with it.
That speaks to me. There are five senses but then there are other senses that aren’t defined within those five and one of those is the feeling you get when you hear a song you like. You can’t really put that into words or put it into a “box” of a specific sense. It’s not taste. It’s not touch. It’s not hearing. It’s something…something different. Spiritual maybe?
ME: You guys said a dozen things that personally relates to martial arts for me. Shoshin, the Beginner’s Mindset, this mentality of playing it and going back to the way it was introduced to you and going back to the mentality you approached it in the beginning.
You’re talking about these mind palaces. You’re talking about these attached memories and emotions. I’ve really been experimenting and studying this lately. NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), is the idea of anchoring thoughts. There is a lot of weird stuff that happens [in martial arts] and there are all of these legends and myths but then you break it down to logic.
It’s like, “I’m just going to attach a memory to this, a feeling to this, and sit with that idea in my head as I hold this posture.” It’s just a different approach to something. It’s amazing how powerful those things can be.
SHING02: The mind is a powerful tool. Period. And I think we are all conditioned in such a way that we only use some parts of our brain function and mind because we’re so trained to live in an organized manner.
The world, in fact, would be chaotic but we love predictability. We don’t like chance. That’s why we build things. That’s why we build organizations. That’s why we name streets, so that we know where to go. We like order, but life, in fact, should be chaotic.
ME: With music and martial arts both, you have to–to a degree–study and learn.
SHING02: Right, right. Like kata?
ME: Exactly. Like kata. You’re taking a form, a fixed way of doing something. An order [of doing things]. But then you have to go past that as well. You have to learn not just how to work this “instrument” but you have to play it as well.
DJ ICEWATER: And be the instrument.
ME: And be the instrument. With a form, with a kata, it’s not just that I’m attaching “musical rhythm” to it, I’m attaching my own tempo to movements and my own emotions to them as well. I go a little past that [first stage]. Not too different at all.
DJ ICEWATER: You know, what else is cool about martial arts and music–especially with hip hop, which involves sampling–is that in both you are taking stuff from the past and filling it up. The Silat from Indonesia leads to Kali and then–I mean, they are all connected.
That’s what I love about music and also the martial arts. Everything is connected. No one got here on their own. It really bothers me when people think that. [They’re] like, “I did this by myself!” It’s like, no you didn’t. *laughs*
SHING02: You can take language [for example]. That took centuries to develop; the syntax, the grammar, the words, the slang, and pronunciation.
DJ ICEWATER: I just love connecting the thoughts with music and martial arts. I don’t practice martial arts anymore but I was really into it in my younger days. I used to get Black Belt Magazine. *laughs* Well, I didn’t buy it. I’d be in the bookstore reading it.
SHING02: I like the fact that hip hop kinda encouraged you to do that. To metaphorically break things down and analyze it, think critically, think about where it came from, and, y’know, you don’t just blindly do something because it’s given to you. Even though it might feel that way at times.
Especially when hip hop or really anything is commercialized, you tend to stop thinking about those kind of things. You stop thinking critically because those answers are right there, like, “Hey, you do those and you’re set.” But it shouldn’t be that way.
ME: It’s a recipe, you just tailor it, right? Shu, Ha, and Ri.
SHING02: Y’know, [there are] people who wouldn’t be down for a conversation like this. It’s like, “why are you questioning the way things are?” There are people who don’t respect the architects of a culture.
ME: They argue that “tradition has us it do this way” but tradition has you borrowing this! That really does break down so many of the dividers of a culture.
SHING02: If you try to pick only what is new, you have to remember that what is old was once new. It’s like [for example] Star Wars. They had to create their own from what was.
DJ ICEWATER: Yeah. We could trace the lineage of where George Lucas has said he got the ideas from.
SHING02: Everybody borrowed from the past.
DJ ICEWATER: I remember seeing an interview with DJ Qbert when I first moved to the Bay area. Back then it was kind of like the heyday of hip hop culture and there is all of this anti–you’re not allowed to bite [copy from another artist]. Biting is a “sin”. And someone asked Qbert about that and Qbert is like, “biting is how I learn how to DJ”. You try to bite the guy who is better than you and do what they do. That’s what it is.
SHING02: And obviously, you’re talking about two different definitions.
DJ ICEWATER: Definitely. The strict definition.
SHING02: One is just straight lifting an idea and claiming it.
DJ ICEWATER: There are people who are afraid [to bite]. [People] Who can’t tell the difference between the two so they are too afraid to even accept that that’s part of the learning process.
SHING02: *looks at me* I’m sure it’s the same with you guys too. Real artists, either martial artist or musical artists, who know how to borrow or even steal and take it further [so] that you’re not just blindly copying someone.
ME: Exactly. And there is a certain amount of respect you give to them when you do that, right?
DJ ICEWATER: It is a sign of respect–biting–it’s almost…flattery.
ME: Exactly. Especially when done without the “Oh! I’m doing this and Imma do it better than you!” malicious intent. Like you’re talking about, it is a respect thing.
DJ ICEWATER: ‘Cause I think a lot of the people that get accused of biting aren’t intending to bite, it’s just part of their natural process of learning something. But for some reason, hip hop around that time was really…harsh on calling penalties on people. On calling fouls without getting the proper context.
ME: I came to this interview and I was already thinking in my head “there are going to be some similarities [between music and martial arts].” A lot of picking dots to cross and connect them but…there’s a lot more than I expected, to be honest. Even the mentality of you guys, the perspective you have on music, is broad enough that it allows it to cross over.
SHING02: I guess our generation was lucky in the fact that we had people teach us those things. It’s not about “me, me, me, me!”. It’s not about what I went through and I talk about my story and that’s it. You have to keep your eyes open to your surroundings and what came before you.
We have to contribute back to what inspired us. Not just as an artist but as a person. And we can attribute that to the Bay area culture where it was more or less conscious in many levels.
And thus concluded our unique conversation bridging the two different arts, the martial and the musical. After the interview, I stuck around to watch them perform live and what I saw was everything we talked about.
I saw masters of their craft, artists weaving the music to their soul and connecting to the people around them.
The idea of treating each performance as if it were your first was illustrated by their great energy while performing songs they have performed many, many times.
Overall, it was like watching and listening masters at work.
(In other words, if you get the chance to see them live, GO SEE THEM—and tell ’em I said “hi!”)
